Emrah

Topic: Hanging Fixtures for Structural Steel

Hi Im Emrah from Turkey,

We are manufacturing coating lines. One of our customer requires user friendly hanging fixtures, adaptable to all dimesions. They are producing structural steel up to 3-40 tons/piece, 10 meters length. Is it possible to design such fixtures so that any shape can be carried through monorail overhead webb conveyor, into the wet painting sections and ovens?

Thank You

skip

Re: Hanging Fixtures for Structural Steel

"Holy crud der batman", in Turkey? You want one size fits all work hangers? So if the work hanger is adjustable, or a siding affair what happens when the over spray paint builds up and 'gums up the works' ? And are we talking a grounded work hanger for electrostatics? Work hangers must be clean.

I did the engineering and built a body carrier work hanger burn-off system for Pontiac years ago. Five pictures included. Note that the floor to heat protect the inverted power and free is not yet installed. This bake-off oven and and ash washer is on the third wood floor of the building. A slight elevation adjustment so some conveyor pieces were scabbed in.

A 40 ton 30 foot + long piece on a overhead Webb Conveyor system and into a oven. How hot is the oven? How much time. How many pieces an hour? Just wondering...and what are the coating specifications? Certainly not powder I hope.

Heck of a building and must really have some steel in the oven's structure. Or the whole building is an oven. Something for ships? For rail roads? Earth moving equipment? Electric Boat pre-heats the titanium submarine ring sections to 160 deg F before the welders are sent in to weld for 10 minutes. Those guys come out to cool off and the next welders go in. Anyway...

A Catapillar D-9 dozer or what?

I used a floor drag chain conveyor with lifts out of the floor and human painters in floor pits and other painters in cherry pickers hung off the walls of the booth to pick up, rotate and paint the dozers as an assembly before being lowered back down on to the drag conveyor. Kind of like continous power and free conveyor. Pick up the work [dozer] and let the drag chain keep moving with it's pusher dogs.

Why not just an air dry coating first? And second I'm thinking chain or cable for the universal work hanger.

Suspend the work from a Marine Travel Lift and drive the whole rig into the oven. Good to 600 U.S.Ton. Cool the control box, put steel wheels on and she can take some oven temperature.

Just talking out loud.

skip.


Burn Off 001.jpg
Burn Off.jpg
Burn Off 002.jpg
Burn Off 003.jpg
Burn Off 004.jpg
travlift1_a.jpg

Last edited by skip (12/23/2009 - 05:24 PM)

Your Best Finish Starts Here

Emrah

Re: Hanging Fixtures for Structural Steel

Hi Skip, thanks for your answer. Let me correct , it is 3-4 tons per main hanging bar. What I mean by hanging bar, since they have various dimensions we have decided to produce a main bus bar according to their biggest product, which is 12 meters. These bu bars shall be attached to webb conveyor trolleys (overhead). So that, they will hang their materials under these bars, conveyor height shall be 3,5 meter above the floor which means they will be able to hang more than one, one under the other. The problem is that, under these main bars they require a easy to use hanging system which will carry similar products at the same bar. When they want to hang bigger ones, it must be arranged (something like that). I think I should tell them that life is not something you can get everything together in the same package :)

Anyway, the paint is wet, double component. The system shall have 7 steps, manual washing cabin and fe phosphating together, dry-off oven, paint boot 1, flash-off, paint booth2, flash-off, and curing oven. Each section is seperated by automated sliding doors, and the system shall work step by step. The bars is going to move to another section , stop, wait for 20 min for operation and going to another stop. Which means all durations will be same, around 20 minutes. The customer is going to paint building structural steels. The cabins will be 15x5,5x3,5 meters.

The thing is that capacity, they require high volumes. Therefore, we needed to design smthng fast, high.

What do you think?

Emrah

skip

Re: Hanging Fixtures for Structural Steel

Emrah;

Hanging work this heavy and this long, and unknown width or height, either one at a time or in multiples is usually a tough thing to do. If you screw up your going to kill somebody. So be careful. Cover your butt. If you do this you'll have to negativity sell the idea. Me...I'd paint these on the building floor. But...

You have to consider weight, and the combined weight of several works, space between so the painter can get in there to spray the work. Square footage that is being painted and is enough time allowed to cover the work.The vertical height of the work package. Can 'Joe' painter reach to the top-o-work? Is a painter's platform necessary? Is a fork lift or crane needed to load and off load the work? What about rack marks? ect. May be painting can be done with two Funac P-100 painting robots and Carol controllers and a couple of HPLV guns.

As structural steel for buildings is concerned I believe you'll be lucky to load one work per load bar.

I made a couple of sketches, just toying with some ideas. It was fun thanks. Let me know what you think especially the ZERO TURN, ZERO KICK OUT for very long parts. I did this for a guy making highway lights, 'way up there'. He had an old poured concreate building with building columns on 25 foot centers. Very narrow but very long building. It [the paintline with this style conveyor] went up on the second floor. Used a shoot through the floors to transport the work from floor to floor.

I don't really have any god ideas. 1:06 pm

skip

Attachments: Click Here to See and download a complete pdf of the drawings below.


Attachments:

Hangers 0.jpg
Hangers 1.jpg
Hangers 2.jpg
Hangers 3.jpg
Hangers 4.jpg
Hangers 5.jpg
Hangers 6.jpg
Hangers 7.jpg
   hangersketch.pdf

Last edited by skip (12/24/2009 - 09:31 PM)

Your Best Finish Starts Here

Emrah

Re: Hanging Fixtures for Structural Steel

Hi Skip,

I would like to thank you for your ideas. Especially, zero turn zero kick conveyor design, for such long items it seems a very creative solution considering narrow spaces. Actually these guys have plenty of spaces, we are using half of it.Your design requires more chain, more work, which will increase the costs for these guys. We even didnt put power&free conveyor, a single line monorail, 4" trolleys, 10 pieces carrying a loading bar will work out. Joe has been already considered, he will have platform in cabins, 2 meter height. Painting shall be manual, for such different items automated operation is going to be headache only. (Praise the old days:)

These guys have already cranes in the building, loading and unloading ill be done by those.

The operation is PLC controlled, stop durations will be arrangable, if 20 min is going to be more or not enough, they can arrange it.

The only concern is "rack marks", that's what makes me and these guys concern about. It seems it will be unavoidable, just needed to be minimized perhaps. Im thinking of wire ropes with heavy duty hooks. We will see, but you are right, the system should not screw up when everything is over.

Merry Christmas Skip and keep in touch!!

Emrah

skip

Re: Hanging Fixtures for Structural Steel

Emrah Well it looks like this project is well in hand.

So how are things in Turkey?

Sounds like buildings are being erected and that is providing an opportunity for this producer to get busy fabricating and painting building steel. That is a good thing.

I wish I had an answer for rack marks but I don't other than a dip process with an electrostatic de~tearing to knock away the drip marks as the work exits a dip tank over the drip pans...that is a whole different can of worms.

Well as you know unemployment is still very high in the states and small business as well as large business is pretty much sitting on their collective wallets. People are just not spending money. Uncertainty is pretty certain. People are scared and things just became worst with this expensive health care bill that no one can figure out how to pay for. Figures don't lie but liars do figure.

Our Government, both state and federal has spent far more then they will ever take in. The feds say they will get it from the rich with higher taxes...OK. You want to kill something just tax it to death.

I have never worked for anybody who had no money. The government does not earn any money. They just steel it from someone and give it to someone else...to quote our vice president Joe Biden, "To keep from going broke we need to spend more money." If I said that to my wife she would smack me up-side the head...Glad to help. Be healthy, wealthy and happy in 2010.
skip.

Last edited by skip (12/25/2009 - 08:11 PM)

Your Best Finish Starts Here

Emrah

Re: Hanging Fixtures for Structural Steel

Hi Skip,

Sorry for late answer. The thing is, I am in Saudi Arabia since last 3 months and this project is for a Saudi company that is quite active in the region in steel sector. We opened a branch here, and I moved to Saudi because life has stopped in Turkey same like US. Actually this was a though decision for me, cause living in Saudi is difficult which you can imagine. Social life is limited, daily life has been adapted to religious rules and so on.. but what can you do, sometimes though decisions are necessary to survive. On the other hand, this market is quite alive, industry is growing and government spending money in infrastructure and oil money drives all the market dynamics. This is the story of this project, and right now I will be going to check a warehouse for production purposes. The real estate people here don't work between 12-4 pm, funny isn't it? Banks close at 4 pm, authorities are off after 2 pm every day, typical Arab way.


I am aware of the situation there, my sis is doing her master degree in Portland, we are speaking about that also. Anyway, I hope things will be better in next year though I am not positive about it. These generations will survive but I am quite doubtful for the coming ones, hope the train still can be caught. Have a nice new year eve, wish to your family healthy, groovy and jazzy new year!!

P.S. Let your wife controls the finance of the house :)

Take Care

Emrah