eduardot00

Topic: Non isulated anodes

Hello, reciently Im runing a cyanide zinc plating line in Venezuela, we plate planar steel pieces of 4”x 4”x0.7mm average dimensions in a rack of 30pz each, our baths dimensions are: 1x2x1meters, the question is: The anode lead of the rectifier is atached to the steel tank, and the zinc anodes are hanging in a bar welded to the tank, yes they arent isulated!! And I dont now why because all the theory sais the oposite thing. Please give me some advices about it.

DustinGebhardt

Re: Non isulated anodes

What is the problem you are having?

-Dustin Gebhardt,
CEF
Plating Engineer
Danaher Tool Group
Gastonia, NC

eduardot00

Re: Non isulated anodes

We are unsatisfied with the finishing quality, too many stained or burned pieces.. i would like to know if a reason exists in order that my installation is like that.. thanks!!

Paul Fisher

Re: Non isulated anodes

Hello Edwardo,

Can you post some pics of your tank configuration and of the stained and burned parts? I think if you can do this there are many here who could help you more.

eduardot00

Re: Non isulated anodes

The anode bar is atached to the tanck, the catode is isulated from the tank and have a round end where the rack stands an get the current, we have four zinc anodes for each side of the rack, the average bath comp.is: cyanide: 70 g/l, caustic: 48 g/l, zinc metal: 26 g/l. The pieces whit problem are of mayor area like in the picture, the small area pieces are ok. Thanks!!!


Attachments:

  Rectifier Outlet.JPG
  Tank Inlet.JPG
  Rack Inlet.JPG
  Rack.JPG
  Anode Chests.JPG
  Piece 1.JPG
  Piece 2.JPG
  Tank Inlet.JPG

eduardot00

Re: Non isulated anodes


Attachments:

  Tank Inlet.JPG

DustinGebhardt

Re: Non isulated anodes

A burned deposit can be caused by many things. The parts may be too close to the anode (or the tank walls in this case). The current may be too high. The zinc metal may be too low. The caustic may be too high (giving too much conductivity and therefore too much current).

Also the bath agitation may be poor. I noticed that you do not have any sort of mechanical agitation or solution movement. Do you have a filter to help move the solution? How about eductors? You don't want to use air for agitation as this will generate excess carbonates.

-Dustin Gebhardt,
CEF
Plating Engineer
Danaher Tool Group
Gastonia, NC

eduardot00

Re: Non isulated anodes

Hello Dustin, we have no agitation at all, but we filter the bath every two months.

How can I now the correct anode to cathode distance??? The current density is:±4 A/dm2, the bath comp is: cyanide: 70 g/l, caustic: 48 g/l, zinc metal: 26 g/l.

What do you think aboutthe tank configuration???

Daniel

Re: Non isulated anodes

none of the zinc cyanide palter in my city use agitation so i dont think that could be the problem. looks like chemistry or contamination.

Burning?.....mmmmm if it is due to high CD... parts too close to anode....mmmm...or bath chemistry not ok.

Last edited by Daniel (01/15/2009 - 01:41 AM)

DustinGebhardt

Re: Non isulated anodes

I agree that many cyanide platers do not use bath agitation, but I have seen remarkable improvements in plating speed (via using higher current densities) and bath brightness (for bright copper cyanide baths). It stands to reason that agitation will help flush away the "spent" solution near the surface of the part and reduce burning in the HCD areas.


You can increase the zinc metal slightly to see if that helps. Also, where are your carbonates? 14-25g/L is pretty common and at least 7-10 is required for proper bath performance. If this is an established bath, I would suspect that you have enough carbonates. Excessive carbonates cause reduced bath efficiency, which may indirectly cause you to increase current too high, which would burn your parts.

Regarding the spacing of the parts to the anodes, try to make the "flat" of the part facing the anode. Try to keep the edges away from the anodes. Edges naturally draw more current and are more easily burned. You can also try to mask the edges of the parts by using a robber or shield. It looks like you are using copper wire for racking the parts. Try to construct a cage of wire near the edges of the part. It may take some time, but it can help on a trial basis.

-Dustin Gebhardt,
CEF
Plating Engineer
Danaher Tool Group
Gastonia, NC

eduardot00

Re: Non isulated anodes

About the carbonates, our chem suplier also do the weekly analisis of our baths, but he dont give me this value... so i dont control this thing at all.... how can you now if carbonates are givingproblems??? I pressume for the things you said, maybe we have too many carbonates... we plate every day 24 hours...

DustinGebhardt

Re: Non isulated anodes

Here is the analysis I use for determining carbonates. It is CRITICAL to rinse many times with step #4. I usually rinse the filter paper 4 or 5 times.


Sodium Carbonate

1) Pipet a 5 ml
sample of the plating bath into a 250 ml beaker.

2) Add 50 ml of DI
water to the beaker.

3) Set the beaker on
a hot plate and heat to a boil. Add 20
ml of 10% Barium Chloride while stirring the sample. Allow the sample to settle. After the sample has settled add several more
drops of Barium Chloride and observe if any more precipitate is formed. If so, then add 10 mls more of 10% Barium
chloride.

4) Filter the
solution through a #2 Whatman filter paper washing the flask and the
precipitate with hot DI water.

5) Remove the filter
paper with the precipitate in tact and place in a 250 ml flask. Add 100 ml DI water to the flask and place on
a hot plate and bring the sample to a boil.

6) When the sample
comes to a boil add 3 - 5 drops of Modified Methyl Orange Indicator to the flask and titrate the solution with 0.94N
Sulfuric Acid to a permanent purple endpoint.
Note: Reboil the sample if the color fades to green then continue
titrating with 0.94N sulfuric Acid.

Calculation: mls of 0.94N Sulfuric Acid X 1.32 = oz/gal
Sodium Carbonate

oz/gal Sodium Carbonate X 7.5 = grams/liter Sodium Carbonate

-Dustin Gebhardt,
CEF
Plating Engineer
Danaher Tool Group
Gastonia, NC

eduardot00

Re: Non isulated anodes

Thanks Dustin, very helpful, im goin to do this analisis...

We prep the weekly aditions using air agitation before ading to the bath.. maybe thismetodincrease the sodium carbonate concentration???

DustinGebhardt

Re: Non isulated anodes

Yes, air agitation can increase carbonate formation.

-Dustin Gebhardt,
CEF
Plating Engineer
Danaher Tool Group
Gastonia, NC

Finishing Market

Re: Non isulated anodes

The sodium carbonate is formed by the adsorption of carbon dioxide from the atmosphere by the sodium hydroxide in the plating solution. If your solution is air agitated this will increase the rate of adsorption. Similarly, excessive turbulence from a filtration system will, over a period of time increase the concentration.

We've sold Carbonate Removal Systems (Carbolux) in the past. These systems allow for either continuous and/or batch treatment for the removal of sodium carbonate in plating baths.... typically cyanide based.


   carbolux.JPG

Last edited by Finishing Market (01/18/2009 - 06:14 PM)

Team Finishing Market
(828) 245-3343

www.finishingmarket.com


eduardot00

Re: Non isulated anodes

Dustin, my chemical suplier is doing the analysis for me, but He ask me about the Modified Methyl Orange Indicator, because he dont now how to make this Reagent.

Thanks!!!

DustinGebhardt

Re: Non isulated anodes

I'm not sure about the chemical difference, but you should be able to substitute regular Methyl Orange indicator. The Modified indicator has a tighter pH range, but the regular should still give you a good idea of your concentration.

-Dustin Gebhardt,
CEF
Plating Engineer
Danaher Tool Group
Gastonia, NC

Max

Re: Non isulated anodes

I have a problem with plating evaporators using in refrigerators. I use acid zinc electrolyte. In the middle of evaporators appear roughness (in the area of low current density) which is more noticeable after lacquering. In higher current density surface is smooth. Could somebody explain this? What is reason?

eduardot00

Re: Non isulated anodes

Hello Dustin, we finished the analisis of sodium carbonate: Bath #1= 53.7 g/l; Bath #2= 51 g/l, the procedure was that one you provide me,the values arehigh.. waht do you think about??? how can i now the source of it??? how can I lower this values???

DustinGebhardt

Re: Non isulated anodes

These numbers are high, but not too bad. There are 3 ways that I am aware of to remove carbonates:


1) Freeze them out. Reduce the bath temperature to ~0'C, which will cause the carbonates to precipitate. While the solution is cold, remove the solids with a filter or manually. Heat the bath back to normal ranges and check the carbonates.

2) Use a precipitant, like calcium. I have used calcium hydroxide to form calcium carbonate, which is only slightly soluble. This process makes a lot of mess and you also tend to lose a lot of solution. Beware that the hydroxide can raise your pH too high.

3) Use a continuous carbonate removal system, like the Carbolux mentioned in the previous post. depending on the size of the system, bath volume, and carbonate concentration, this can take a long time to reduce your total carbonates. The one I have used also requires a lot of time from an operator to constantly clean the system.


Carbonates for naturally in the bath and they tend to rise over time. Avoid any unnecessary agitation of the bath and be prepared to treat your bath for carbonates every year.

-Dustin Gebhardt,
CEF
Plating Engineer
Danaher Tool Group
Gastonia, NC